Tuesday Raid
Zee - Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:50
in
So here is my proposal for tuesdays raid. Holy and I talked, and apparently you can que up for the LFR with a full 25 man guild.
The LFR is much much easier than normal modes, and still gives upgrades with each kill. We can form a 25 man raid group, and then zerg through the first four bosses and move onto the next four. Then on wednesday we can split into 10 mans for normal mode progression or continue with 25 man LFR. Either way we are getting both gear and valour.
I firmly believe that our success in normal mode raiding will depend on getting better loots in the LFR that will allow us to pull the right numbers.
| Posts: | |
User login
Navigation
If you do LFR again you can't
If you do LFR again you can't loot the bosses you already looted previously in the week. However, it might not be a bad idea to do LFR on Tuesday, then do a normal run on Wednesday.
Ok but
If we blow through the first 4 bosses in LFR, then everyone that saw the kill - whether they got loot or not - is locked from getting loot from those bosses for the rest of the week. Right? Can you get loot from normal if you've done it on LFR?
Ok, Cacc went and checked for me and found confirmation of someone running bosses on normal, then getting loot out of the same bosses in LFR. But I want to know if the opposite can be done - run bosses on LFR, and then get loot off of the same bosses in normal. If we can, great. If we can't, then I'm not sure I like that. So, do we know?
ETA (again): Ok, spent some more time talking about it with Cacc, so edited it out a lot of what I previously said. I still am kind of "meh" about teaching people how to raid on easy-mode, then expecting to switch to normal modes on a day to day basis. This is just my personal opinion though.
Cacc made the observation that you expect mechanics to be different going from normal to heroics, so it's not much different. But I think the expectation is already ingrained for heroics to have more difficult mechanics than normal. I'm worried that people are going to have difficulty going from LFR raid mechanics to normal mechanics on a day to day basis. So what I'd want to do is run LFR under the assumption that the mechanics are the same as normal, so people get used to doing the fights a certain way, instead of flipping strategies each day (if that makes sense.)
The important thing is that people have fun and see content, and if LFR helps make that more a reality then sure. I still want the loot question answered though, so if anyone has insight on that please share, because that'd be a deal breaker for me. But if we can run LFR, and then run normal, without locking people to loot over it, then sure - we can give the proposal a try.
I am very sure that the two
I am very sure that the two have seperate loot tables. If you loot every boss in LFR you aren't locked out on normal loot.
Via MMO Champion
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1032969-Can-i-loot-in-LFR-and-still-...
Two reasons why I think we should.
1. We can make much more progress with LFR bosses than normal bosses, especially on 25 man where everyone gets to raid together. 4+ bosses with multiple loots is better than 1-2 boss kills in 10 man normal.
2. All loot right now is an upgrade. If we work on upgrading our people with LFR stuff then in a couple weeks we don't have to do it anymore.
No one likes pugging the LFR, you have to deal with asshats and you have a good chance of losing your gear due to a roll. If we do an LFR on tuesday, at least we can run it with people we know, and can keep the loot in house.
Seth was our tank for the orb boss and she had two pieces of LFR gear. I think this went a long way in giving her survivability to take all that punishment when the orb does damage.
I'll be honest, however frustrating that Orb boss is, the slime boss is even worse. We had the strategy down, the strat is easy as pie. The problem was healing through the massive damage that is guarenteed to happen and still doing enough dps to beat the 10 minute enrage.
We still have wednesday and thursday to run normal modes. I say we give it a shot this week, we don't have much to lose.
I saw another post where a
I saw another post where a blue said the loot is not related so you can do both. It is only regulated in LFR.
i haven't been able to find a
i haven't been able to find a blue post, but this question has been asked on mulitiple forums with everyone saying that the loot in LFR and Normal is not tied together.
not gonna make a huge difference.
Are we gonna use EPGP for the LFR raids if we run it? and will we generate EP from running LFR?
On a side note, i dont think a few more pieces of 384 gear is going to make or break our progress.
on a double side note, do we have 25 people who can queue lfr?
it might
You earn EP for scheduled guild activities. So if we schedule raid and run it as LFR, then yes you will earn EP. You won't earn EP if you just pug a raid on your own. It has to be a scheduled/sanctioned guild activity (meaning officer approval and officer presence.)
I tend to agree that a few more pieces of gear isn't going to be the defining factor to make or break our progress. I'm a big proponent of Skill > Gear, and I dislike the idea that you need to outgear an encounter before you can defeat it. That said however, having better gear does mean more survivability, and that isn't a bad thing. I just don't want people getting stuck in this mindset that they have to have better gear to progress. They also need skill, environmental awareness, and that's only going to come with practice.
We've been puling 25's in FL normal for weeks, and since the ilvl requirement for LFR is 272, I think we'll be fine, especially since people have already been running LFR and the new heroics. Now will 25 people show up? That's a different story. if they don't, then we'll run 10's, or try to pull in friends to fill up to 25.
I'm fine doing LFR's for a
I'm fine doing LFR's for a couple of reasons, first it's more to do. A few pieces of gear aren't going to make a big difference, but a bunch will, and we can do the whole raid in LFR if we want to. When LFR is where Firelands is now, we have another level to get on with better gear that's not heroic, and would be more goals. Goals are good.
Chiefly I'm for it since we're only a week and a half from SWTOR. Raids in both games will be set up to not overlap, but you're still going to see a lot of people there playing and leveling for a while. That's time potentially not commited to WoW, and doing something relatively easier and less stressful will mean more margins to bring anyone and everyone without smashing our heads into a wall.
We know we can blow up the first guy in DS now. Let's go in there, do that, then go into LFR for a while. Once we're comfortable with the simple concepts of the upcoming bosses we can try our hands at the regular mode versions as we're comfortable with them.
The important thing overall is that we have fun, and I think we'll have fun as a group working through LFR's. When they're not fun, we have something more to go for.
I couple thoughts occured to
I couple thoughts occured to me: First, in a full guild group in vent we could probably clear LFR pretty fast and still have time the same night to try some fights on regular.
Second, if we don't get enough people to fill a full 25, do we still do a LFR with a majority guild group? Do we try to deal with EP/GP if there's a couple pugs thrown in the mix? If everyone rolls need and passes to the highest PR rating that may be considered an exploit.
.
Your first thought is an idea worth trying out, for sure. I think we'd just start out in LFR though, then go to normal.
Second thought - I am not a fan of pugging remaining spots from the LFR itself. When we have non-guildes in a raid, we usually allow them to roll on loot until they win, then they have to abstain from rolling against guildes the next time an item dropped that they could use. We also usually only take in pugs from among a circle of guildmate's friends.
If we didn't get a full25, and couldn't easily fill spots from within our circle of friends, then I'd form us into 10's and we'd go from there.
ep/gp
Can we even use ep/gp since LFR forces the raid into need before greed?
I suppose we could manually add all the gp separately, but if someone acciedentally rolls on something we can't even give it to another person
hmm
Good point. I guess we can wait to have people roll until after EPGP is dealt with? Or we could take PR out of the equation, but still charge people if they win a roll (not a fan of that idea really.) Or we take EPGP out of the equation entirely - they neither earn it nor spend it.
Thoughts?
No trade
In the last hotfix they made LFR loot non-tradeable so PR wouldn't be able to be used like it normally would. People would have to do something like a roll in chat to determine interest, then the loot master would check PR and the person with the highest rolls need.
my person opinion
It's kind of a pita to make EP/GP work with LFR, I say just use LFR the way it was intended.
Also, anyone would like to do this, make sure you have 372 ilevel since we can't queue if you don't.
Ok
Whatever gets decided. I am actually going to bow out of raids the next few days because I have WAY too much to do for my thesis, and I will stress a lot less if I can take some other things off my plate for a few days. So let me know how it goes and I'll be back next week.
LFR in general
I've heard some complaints that it's too easy but I disagree. First, it HAS to be easy considering you'll be partied with who knows how many numpties that could cock things up. Second, it's fun! Laughing as you're stomping your way through bosses is very stress relieving, especially while we're doing progression raiding and are doing a fair amount of wiping. I say take your friends and/or guildies and stomp through some LFR when we don't have something planned. Not only will you be getting some gear that will help with the regular content, you will be gaining valuable experience. Yes, the boss is much harder and has more mechanics to deal with in the regular content, but there's no better learning tool than DOING it. Watching videos (which everyone should be doing regardless of LFR) and having explanations is great, but the added boost of having actually seen the boss and seen some of what it can do is a fantastic idea.
Well, that's my two cents anyway.
LFG , imo
I have run the LFR on a number of toons and have generally agree with most of the statements. However, the LFR should change somewhat over the next few weeks and here's what I mean about change. To que for LFG25's, a toon has to have a iLvL of 372. Most, if not all of the toons, that have that iLvl in the first two weeks of the new content are well established raiders, as it would be hard pressed for someone NOT raiding FL on a constant basis to achieve that high of an iLvl. That being said, with the higher gear dropping off the new 5man's, casual players will be attaining that iLvl in the near future thus the quality of 'experienced' players in these pugs will diminish. Now is the time to use LFR will some measure of success to gain the gear.
multiple posts? what multiple posts? -Kib
Also...
NOt only will more casual players start entering it who weren't raiding Firelands (or anything else) previously, but the experieinced raiders will have all the loot they need out of there and already be replacing their other loot with actual raids. So right now you have alot of experieinced raiders in there getting gear to help them in their regular raiding, and they'll basically dissapear or at least reduce dramatically in a few weeks at the same time that the less experieinced people will be entering.
Should be interesting. However it MIGHT hook some of the casual people into raiding more, and start looking to do the normal modes now that they've seen teh content and epic nature of larger raids.
I have some concerns about
I have some concerns about using the LFR to substitute for raids, some of which are personal.
I was planning on using LFR with my G/F who has another character on another server.
Unless we actually get 25 people for the raids, then the lotting is going to be all screwed up. You can't use EP/GP because you can't enforce lotting rules with people in the LFR like you can with a PUG.
My experience with LFR is that it is extremely easy. So easy that even 8 bosses probably won't be more than a hour or two.
I definitely think we should use the LFR to gear up, I just don't know if it should be used instead of raiding.
RE: LFR and EP/GP
My gut is to say that LFR raids not to use EP/GP, but also that we don't run them on actual Raid nights. If the guild wants to run an LFR after a raid night, or before, or on an off night, then great, but on actual raid nights, we work on actual raid content with EP/GP.
LFR raids should be treated like running Heroics.... Just with more people. Something we do at other times than scheduled raiding, no ep/gp, etc.
Ok
I think I'd prefer this, for the reasons you gave, I was starting to feel like a lone voice against running LFR in place of normals, plus I am taking the week off to work on school so I figured people would do what they wanted regardless of what I said. But yeah - I would rather people ran LFR on their own, outside of our regular raid nights, and run normals on our regular raid nights as we had planned.
Ya
It just seems way too hard to run them with EPGP and then we enter into the old problems of running need/greed as a guild and actually enforcing it,a nd not having 25 people fuck around and follow rules, it's just a catherding nightmare.
I think peopel should run LFR's IF THEY WANT and do it as a guild or do it as pugs, but do it outside the few nights we say we're running normals rather than twist our panties into a bunch to 'gear up' for things a tiny bit more for a few weeks when the same level gear that could get you in a LFR is completely capable of downing the first bosses in Dragon Soul.
Confusion?
I thought the suggestion was to run LFR as a quick gear up and basic intro to the new raid (tuesday raid) and then run normal 10/25 the rest of the week and possibly running normal raid on tuesday as well since LFR is a cakewalk.
I don't think anyone was suggesting running LFR and ignoring normal raids. Also, there is no penalty for looting a LFR boss and then running a normal raid. they are totally independant of each other.
training tool.
LFR is a great training tool. It allows ppl to get a look at a fight and screw up without potentially wiping the raid. So, once we know what the core mechanics of the fight are, it should be a little easier to move into normal modes. Plus running LFR for the 4 pc bonus is definitely something I want to do. Considering how much raid damage goes out in this tier I think every tank should be looking into doing the same.