SU-27 Vs Grass

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Shinwaka's picture

Damn arrogant grass, about time some thing teaches it a "lesson" :P

 

The lesson starts at 6:23.....afterburner vs grass starts at 8:10.

 

 

Btw, the Su-27 is probably one of the coolest aircraft designs :)

 

 

Oh holy shit.

Flynn's picture

I love the Flanker, just because a really capable pilot could do fucking insane things in one.  I love when a really hot-shit flier does a Pugachev's Cobra at an air show, because everyone expects the goddamn thing to fall straight out of the sky. (If you haven't seen one, basically the pilot switches off like every safety device on the plane and snaps the nose up and over past 90 degrees as an emergency deceleration move, then back down and manages not to turn into an aluminum shower.)

I've heard rumors you can actually get it over further than 120 degrees, and that Soviet pilots could theoretically fire off a wild missile at a fighter that was tailing them, but my mind rebels at the very idea.

"I'll hit the brakes, and he'll fly right by."

Flynn's picture

Yeah I love the Flanker too :)

Shinwaka's picture

The cobra maneuver always leaves my jaw hanging....it really defies gravity.

 

There is a cool video I'll have to find on Youtube where an American pilot is saying that the Russians have always built their plans with superior dogfighting ability, and the US has focused more on missiles and electronics.

 

great Fighter

Siopao's picture

Especially in Ace Combat..

 

Fans of the Mig 21, RTF and good to go, relatively inexpensive

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MIKOYAN-MIG-2...

Ace Combat...

Xyro's picture

now that brings back memories, I saw there's a new fighter game out, HAWK 2 by Tom Clancey, haven't played it though. Also...educate the Air Force n00b, I know fighters are usually operating at hundreds if not thousands of MPH, usually pretty high up, where it's nice n cold. With EGTs in the 700 C range, do they not risk any type of overheat running those engines on the ground like that? I mean I saw the steam rolling off the back of it and the guy at the end was feeling around the engine.

well...

Siopao's picture

jet engines really don't overheat, think of it as a propane torch.

the temperature is greater at the tip of the flame, ie; the tip of the Afterburner

the actual Torch tip is cool, or warm to the touch.  < the copper pipe your heating turns red, but why isn't the torch tip?>

Cold air...engines generate more Thrust, HP, whatever.

cold air is denser, meaning more of it can get in the same space. think cold air filters, or intercoolers for turbochargers <little turbines>

 

BTW Relm is the physics guy..ask him about thermodynamics

Eh

Xyro's picture

I'm a mehcanic, I know the whole theory and practice behind why cold air is better for combustion, hense people adding Co2 'spray kits' to their intercoolers.

I would just assume the plane would need some sort of cooling mechanic, similar to how air passes thorough the radiator in the front of the car. But hey, it's aeronautical engineering...not back yard mechanics lol.

Yes, Jet Turbines Can overheat

fiermi's picture

But not really in the way you are thinking.

And it all depends on the particular engine and how it is designed. When a jet turbine overheats the turbine blades get hot and brittle. They also have torque stresses on them and if you try and throttle up after they have overheated they can shatter (sortof).

An idling engine, or at low throttle (such as taxiing) the engine doesn't generate that much heat. But at higher throttle loads over a longer duration the heat buildup can lead to engine failure. I haven't actualy watched the video above (no YouTube at work) so I am not sure what is happening there. But short duration at full throttle/afterburner would most likely not be enough to cause a failure.

A good example of controlling engine temperature is the harrier 'jump-jet'. The harrier carries a small water tank on board. When the aircraft transitions to STO (short take off) or VTOL (verticle take off / landing) mode the water get sprayed into the compressor blades to lower the engine temperatures. The airplane only carries enough water for about 90 seconds of hovering.

This is not the same sort of water-injection system used on other aircraft. Some aircraft, particularly aircraft that may have to take-off with very heavy loads (the B-52 has this system) have water tanks with injectors in the compressor-section of the engine (just before the combustion chamber). The water hits the hot exhaust gasses and vaporizes increasing the air-pressure across the turbine blades and increasing thrust, similar to after-burners but without raising exhaust gass temperatures (actualy, it lowers them). If you ever see a heavily laden B-52 take off and the engines are spewing black smoke it is because they are running the water injection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_%28engines%29

 

Water Injection.

kibito's picture

I remember alot of evo owners talking about water injection too. Or maybe it was water/alky mix.

Cars

fiermi's picture

There are a couple of types of water injection in cars. That wiki artcile covers most of them.From the almighty Wiki:

Composition of fluid

Many water injection systems use a mixture of water and alcohol (approximately 50/50), with trace amounts of water-soluble oil. The water provides the primary cooling effect due to its great density and high heat absorption properties. The alcohol is combustible, and also serves as an antifreeze for the water. The purpose of the oil is to prevent corrosion of water injection and fuel system components. [1] Because the alcohol mixed into the injection solution is often methanol (CH3OH), the system is known as methanol-water injection, or MW50. In the United States, the system is commonly referred to as anti-detonant injection, or ADI.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I have even seen water, alchy, and Nitrous systems that are all tied to the boost-gauge. In the water and alchy systems it would wait to spray untill full (or almost full) boost. The Nitrous system would spray at low boost to help build exhaust gases to bring the boost up; the system will shut off near full boost as you don't need it any more by that point.

 

And don't forget water-spray that sprays the intercooler to cool the intercooler and thus the intake air charge (sometimes also done with liquid C02 instead of water).

Also...

Siopao's picture

i have used a Propane system on my intake for the turbocharger, to boost octane, and prevent detonation.

i have seen uses, of acetone added to gasoline, i think 1 Oz to 10 gallons to reduce surface tension during injection, but i have never tried it, but know a Sube' owner who did, while running logging software, and showed decreased retard during timing, and decreased knock, as well as an increase in MPG.

i personally didn't have the Balls to try it on my Eclipse

and this is why..

Siopao's picture

I'm a Nurse

As I was saying...

fiermi's picture

Cooling a turbine and the heat stresses it can take all depends on how it was designed. There have been several cars and motorcycles designed around turbine engines. They can take full-throttle loads and heat at speeds far less than what an aircraft reaches. Speed=cooling

http://www.marineturbine.com/motorcycles.asp <-- Jay Leno's turbine bike

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car <-- 1960's chrysler experimental car, several were give to customers on a trial basis

Even tanks get in on the turbine action:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrams_tank

 

The big problem with turbine ground vehicles is that throttle response is much, much slower than piston engines. A turbine can produce a lot of horsepower, but they don't actualy produce much torque. So they have to spin up to incredible speeds (most don't hit their stride untill over 15,000 rpm). And throttling up and down they take a while to respond. Straight line speed can be incredible, or in aplications where constant throttle is all you need they are great (those hydro-foil racing boats all use turbines now).

Lucky...

Xyro's picture

God, Jay Lenos the man...he has all that money and KNOWS how to spend it =D

The only BAD thing I could see about owning a turbine powered bike...unless you have a degree you probably can't work on it XD

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