Jerks...
Cacciatore - Thu, 06/24/2010 - 00:00
in
http://elitistjerks.com/forums.php
Learn it... Live it...
Taking it to the next level, truly preparing for hard-modes will take some real work.
Learn to min-max your class. Minimize your downtime, Maximize your priority responsibilities.
http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/farstriders
Down 1 more boss and you're in 13th, 2 more and you're in the top 10.
Let's focus up and get moving.
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soooo close
I'm encouraged after trying out hardmode Gunship tonight. I don't want to come off seeming elitist or hardcore, but given how well-geared this guild is becoming, and how close we are progress-wise, I really want to see us push into the other wings on 25man and get LK down in 10man. I know we can progress farther if we keep working at it. I know tonight wasn't a normal raid night because of last night things being so fubar'd. But I think we could have moved at a faster pace than we were. I know a lot of people got upgrades tonight, so I really want to see those upgrades getting put to good use. For my part, I was having some addon issues, and was being deluged with IM's, plus had a lot going on at home.
Next week, I'd like to start fresh again, and speed-clear through Lower Cit, take a break after Saurfang, then head into one of the other wings. Here's my personal request then: if you plan to go, be ready to go at 8pm server time. Have your gear together - if you are missing gems or enchants, please ask in guild for some help with it. Study up on the fights if you don't know them. By now, most of us should, so there shouldn't need to be any explanation before the Lower Cit ones at all.
Also, one of the things that slows us down is when people don't have EPGP (dkp reloaded) and EPGP Lootmaster installed. It makes things confusing for whoever is trying to handle loot. So if you do not have them installed, get them installed from Curse. It makes our job a lot easier.
Also..
Come on your best geared character. I know people want to gear up their alts and other toons and change characters because they're bored, but we don't have time for it at this point I think anymore. If we bring our best dps, best healers, best tanks, and steamroll we can fill in some gear gaps a few people still have but at the same time be up in the upper citadel even faster. We need to be done with Saurfang and taking a 5 minute bio afk before 9pm server or we just don't have enough time.
I've been fairly accepting of other people bringing whowever they want, but at this point people need to pick their best geared character and stick with it, unless the raid leader specifically asks them to change.
Because I simply don't believe that people out there have fully geared up their primary characters, given that I raid pretty much every week and I still have 5 upgrades I could get out of the place.
Also people need to watch the fights we're heading into. I'm going to send a message via guild mail in game too. People need to not just make their MAIN character as good as they can, but they need to watch the upcoming fights. Videos on tankspot, read up on them on bosskillers. It kills me when we get to upper citadel and we get to a new fight that we said we were going to hit and half the raid hasn't so much as glanced at a video.
This isn't hardcore raiding. It's just what we need to do to progress.
Ok, ok
Then that needs to be a hard and fast rule, that we all stick to. I'm fine bringing Ikuri, and not Xianne, but then everyone needs to do the same. Besides, I gave you the opportuity to raid lead earlier, and you told me to do it anyway. So I'm not going to feel guilty about bringing Xianne last night. :P
On a more serious note, I think last night we didn't have an optimal group. We had a few people not used to raiding, and a few that were pretty undergeared for ICC25. I think toward the end our progress got halted as well, with people dropping and having to replace several people in a short span of time. And there was a big miscommunication on Rotface where two healers went dps, even though I only told one to make the switch.
Anyway, it's all part of the learning process. For now, the goal is Lich King tonight, and another 10man making it through progression at least.
I'm not tring to make you feel guilty
...that'd just be a bonus.
No, we haven't done it necessarily in the past, and we didn't do it last night, I just think that if we want to progress than we need to stick to one character a piece and only change if the guild/raid as a whole needs it to do something. For instance have Hecataeus raid on Hecataeus because that's his best geared toon, but if we get to a fight where we need more healing, we can consider him swapping out for his priest. Etc. Have Ikuri heal on Ikuri. Have Maharae pick either Maharae or Corenza whoever is the better dps and stick to that, etc.
If you like playing multipel characters GREAT do so, but pick one for 25 man raiding and stick with it. I think this needs to be the rule at this point. We'll maintain flexibility but at the same time it's not going to be up to individual players to determine what's best for the raid. You play on your main unless the raid leader says otherwise. Don't try and count how many melee or ranged are if you're on your ranged and think the raid is short melee. Leave it to the raid leader.
At the same time we need to probably make people declare their mains, we should have done it awhile ago, and post it on the site, with laternate specs or characters they're willing to bring in if needed...hwoever everyone should log in and go to the raid initially on their main.
We'll still try to have gearing and alt ICC nights for these characters, but the MAIN tuesday 25 man night should be about the best we have, and that means people sticking to what they have.
The fact that, when we pay attention, we can one shot Festergut and Rotface, to me means that we can easily down ALL content in ICC 25 gear wise now. it's just a matter of getting people into the fights and seeing them. I'm going to send an in game letter today to everyone. We'll put up a raiding post, and I hope that everyone who runs 25's with us will sign the page, declare their main, list their alts and alt specs, and promise to watch every ICC 25 video, and actually do it.
You say you'd love to make me feel guilty...
...but what I really hear is "Ikuri, you're so awesome and I'm glad you're in my guild. Thanks for ditching Moon Guard to be with us. You're the bestest!"
<3
But yeah, I agree with you on pretty much everything you said. And thank you for saying it. ;)
Yes, I apologize about the
Yes, I apologize about the addons. I did have one of the EPGP's installed, but not the other. The Rules Bible needs to be updated to mention (both) EPGP (dkp reloaded) and EPGP (Lootmaster) -- and that these are two separate downloads that are required.
Elitiest jerks is a use full
Elitiest jerks is a useful tool, but it should be treated as a resource for information and not the be all end all 'you have to spec and rotate the way EJ says!'
I'm not saying that's what you're suggesting, but I've seen too many people with their brains sucked out of their heads being an EJ parrot. 'Squwak! Elitiest Jerks says! Elitiest Jerks says!' I appreciate the information they have available, but at the end of the day I'm going to play my Char myself, not have EJ play it for me.
Agreed
The range of our single target dps is pretty broad. Alot of times it's just gear, but I think anyone who isn't a the top of the charts needs to take a look at what they're doing from as many sources as possible and practice.
I remember on Storlivras spending hours trying different casting rotations on mobs and then training dummies. Even at 80 when i was considering bringing him back into the fold I just parked myself there and did a variety fo things I had red to do until I had figured out the optimal rotation based on what I had read and been told. Upped my dps from about 1400 to 2200 in pretty basic new 80 gear just from changing what I did. That's a pretty significant increase. If someone is doing 4k dps and hasn't really thought about their rotation, going to someplace like elitist jerks and changing their rotation might up their dps the same amount and could jump them from 4k to 6k dps which is a big jump.
But yeah there is more than one way to skin a parrot....
Sometimes the parrot needs a new cage
I totally agree with doing research, even watching the damn videos and reading Bosskillers. Single target dps can be affected by fps--I tried turning off all the addons I could last night, and my fps was better. Lag spikes, aging computer, all that crap makes a difference. I don't know if any of our group has that issue, but I suspect several do.
It takes a lot of time to gear up, especially if you're building two sets. And keeping both sets of skills honed--okay you can tank, but can you dps too? Well, sometimes.
EJ has some really good information, but navigating through eight zillion pages of napkin math posts...yeah no thank you. I know their hunter thread has good stuff in it, but so does Warcraft Hunters Union, and I can find what I want in about two clicks.
Yeah
Thats why I think people need to pick not just mains, but primary specs, and it's their goal to gear that spec up as good as possible, adn then have the offspec be secondary. It's the toughest on you Mel because you tend to play 'third tank', but in those cases your dps in your offspec just needs to be better than your tanking dps so we don't judge you the same as say... Poxumbra who is ONLY dps. Plus you're a paladin so you're OP anyway which helps.
But yeah my point is that if you're a pure dps class it needs to be a single focus of gearing, and when your'e geared then you need to accumulate frosties, and help other people gear up, and not steal their gear for your alts. But at the same time I'd be shocked if everyone is truly geared up on their mains, given that I know that the best geared players we have aren't even fully geared up.
Also you're right. Latency and FPS can make a huge difference in dps, and also raid survivability. If you lag out for 5 seconds on a fight every 30 seconds not only is that a significant drop in your dps, but there's a good chance it'll leave you in the fire to die at some point.
I know I'm not even fully there...
I have me a little list of pieces for Warfury's Complete Armament of Awesomeness; it's a short list, but still...
True
I'm kinda anti-EJ, for that reason. I don't like them being considered the "end all, be all" of information. But, I do realize that they are very good at what they do (theorycrafting) and that they should be considered a valid resource for getting information on how spec/gear/perform. As a priest, I didn't get much use out of their priest forum. But as a paladin I found a lot of the information pretty invaluable at helping me figure out how to make sense of things.
There's a pinned thread in the Raid forums, Raiding 101, that has a lot of information and links to resources. If people haven't checked it out yet, then I definitely recommend doing so!
EJ is by no means perfect.
EJ is by no means perfect. What EJ does do it emphasize the importance of Theorycrafting. EJ won't always be right in terms of choosing a spec, or how to gem, or what enchants to use, that will always be subjective to your current progress. If you look at the Hunter PvE theorycrafting post http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t43271-hunter_pve_dps_wotlk_updated_3_2_2_a/ there's a part that says..
"When Lock and Load procs, use 3 Explosive Shots, in a row. Allow time in between each to let the previous shot's charges to detonate. You can make this easier to accomplish by using Quartz and enabling the buff module; when the Explosive Shot buff is almost petered out, fire your next one. Interleaving shots in between these Explosive Shots is not recommended for most players; you want to begin the cooldown of ES as quickly as possible, and it will not begin until your third ES is fired."
I disagreed with this, and on the 2nd page there's a post from me that explains my reasoning. Mainly I disagree because it's factually WRONG... the LnL CD beings as soon as LnL procs, now whether it's still a good idea to interleave shots is further debatable, but the core EJ guide to hunter information is misleading to SV, but I knew that was wrong the moment I read it because I'm intimately familiar with my class. That's where I want everyone to be, don't take EJ at face value, use it as a means to learn.
What I want people to do is take a long hard look at where they stand, and discover what they can do to improve. Every time I'm fighting I think of what I can do to hit harder, which attack will best suit this immediate moment considering what's coming up next in the course of events, and most importantly I recognize every time I make a mistake and try to account for it. If I incorrectly choose a course of attacks I want to be aware of potentially how much damage I've lost. That's how you want to think about your playing.
I don't want anyone to expect to go hardcore, but self improvement doesn't require you be. It's a good idea to find someone who often outperforms you and measure yourself next to them. Read over their combat logs, find out what abilities they're getting the most out of, and how that compares to yours. Don't make it a point of contention, or open competition, just a measurement of improvement. I've always enjoyed running with other hunters at the hardcore levels because we always discussed mechanics, and made it a point to try and outdo one another.
Anyway I know I'm going on a lot, and I know some feel very rooted in their favorite specs and such and that's fine, but make the most out of whatever you choose, even if you decide to be rebellious.
I've never...
I'll have to check out EJ later on today...I know a lot of people research their classes, specs, gear and what not. I'm not sure if it makes me a "lesser" player, but I've never done any research on my class/spec...ever. My lock is my main, which I've been playing for roughly five years now, I never had people tell me how to play my class or look up a certain rotation online. Back when I was 'perfecting' my rotation, I used Recount on training dummies to simply see where my numbers were lacking and succeding depending on what rotation/spec I was using. Then when I saw my 'raw' numbers were doing good, I'd test it in a random or raid and take it from there. Granted improving upon your DPS can be a tedious task, especially if you don't play a faceroller class like me...which is a common misconception about Locks =P
I feel it's much more gratifying using a technique or rotation you put together yourself than going to a website and seeing...Ok everyone is saying rotation A, C, B, D is the best...but I use A, B, D, C....I think I'll just use what everyone says is the best. Granted there's nothing wrong with that and I feel everyone should do the best they can, but I feel you can't truly learn your class if you just mirror everything you see on fourms. I feel some of the best experiences comes from trial and error...tough love, so to speak.
Am I saying completely jumble your rotation before a raid or start making major changes DURING a raid? Not at all, but try to do some homework if you know your DPS isn't where it should be or where you'd like it to be. Again, Cacciatore brings up a great point, if you KNOW your not doing as well as a fellow guildie in a certain class, ASK THEM. I'd like to think we're comfortable enough with each other to help one another with whatever role it is their trying to pursue or improve upon. Again we're in this together and I wouldn't like to think we're trying to one up each other. Although I do feel having some competition or someone to 'beat' in a certain field (Tanking, healing, dps) is a great way to stay motivated and constantly improve, just don't let it get out of control :P We don't wanna turn into Mr. Minus50DKP
I know we're not a hardcore raiding guild, but at the same time (and correct me if I'm wrong) I don't quite consider us completely casual....possibly Casual Plus? Heh. I know around the time I joined the guild (a lil over a month ago) we had a 'baby boom' if you will. Obviously I don't know how raiding was before I joined, I'm just speaking from what I've seen. Personally I never raided before joining NO (besides VoA and a weekly here or there) and as in never, I mean NEVER...like the only raid instance I REALLY know is ICC...not Naxx, not Uld (Although that one is coming together nicely). But the point I'm trying to portrait is that I'm ready for any instance and at the rate we're going I think we're going to start reviewing Hard Mode fights for ICC soon. To be honest, I think we can handle them, it's just a matter of everyone being on the ball, both with encounter awareness as well as class/spec/gear awareness.
Wow....what a random assortment of thoughts...apolgies in advance :P
lol, Casual Raiding Most
lol, Casual Raiding
Most people don't have the stomach for hardcore, it doesn't win you many friends, involves lots of yelling and lots of wiping, not to mention very high expectations. Not condusive to making friendships either, although I respect a lot of people I raided with, I also hated a number of them, but for the sake of progress you tolerate the people who can do the job.
I'm really enjoying getting back in the comrodory atmosphere.