It's a sad day for DKs everywhere...
Although I've jokingly and seriously said I would try frost tanking in Cata...even I'm not dumb enough to see all signs point to NO. Blood Presence now gives a 8% Stam Buff, Armor increase from all kinds of armor by 60% and reduces all damage taken by 8%. On top of that, with Improved Blood Presence you gain an additonal 6% chance to NOT be crit by melee attacks and 4% damage reduction carries over while in Frost/Unholy Presence. AND on to top of this, most of you know with any class you have to "specialize" in a certain tree. Doing this locks you into said tree in which you HAVE to spend 31 points before moving into another tree (I only have 36 points @ lvl 80). Not only does it lock you into that tree, you gain passive abilites with each tree.
Here are Blood's passive abilites:
Veteran of the Third War - Increase total Stamina by 9% and Expertise by 6.
Vengence - Each time you take damage, you gain 5% of the damage taken as AP (attack power), up to a max of 10% of your health.
Blood Rites - Whenver you hit w/Death Strike or Obliterate, the Frost and Unholy Runes will become Death Runes when they activate.
You also gain mastery skills, from what I saw you have two. I'm not 100% sure how Mastery works yet. I found this in my spell book - If all your slots have plate armor you gain an additional 5% in armor.
But this is the true Mastery skill:
Blood Shield - Each time you heal yourself via Death Strike, you gain 50% of the amount healed as a damage absorption shield. Each point of Mastery increases the shield by an additional 6.25%. (The PTR went down as I was trying to figure out this Mastery crap.)
The Blood Tree also now houses...
Bone Shield - Same 3 Charges thing. Takes 20% less damage while active and you deal 2% more damage with spells, abilites and attacks.
Toughness - Increases Armor value by 10%.
Scarlet Fever - Gives your BB a 100% chance to afflict enemies with SF, reducing their physical damage dealth by 10% for 30 sec.
Sanguine Fortitude - Decreases all damage taken by Icebound Fortitude by an ADDITIONAL 30% and costs NO runic power (Making Icebound Fortitude 60% DAMAGE REDUCTION).
Blood Parasite - Your attacks have a 10% chance to spawn a Bloodworm. The Bloodworm attacks your enemies, gorging itself with blood until it bursts to heal nearby allies. Lasts up to 20 sec.
Crimson Scourge - Increases damage done by BB by 40%. When you hit an enemy already infected with Blood Plague with Plague Strike, there is a 100% chance your next BB will consume NO runes.
Dancing Rune Weapon - Summons a rune weapon to fight on its own, dealing 50% less damage that it's user deals. Also, grants it's master a 20% increase in Parry while active.
Here's the kicker, due to new cookie cutter talents, you may not always want to pick something but you HAVE to, in order to advance to the next tier (This is applies HEAVILY to Afflic Warlocks, but you do have SOME felxabilty in the Blood Tree with DKs. Mostly because there's not a lot to choose from with Afflic Locks.). You can ONLY increase single handed weapon stats via Talent Trees if your a Blood tank...Nerves of Cold Steel (Increases your chance to hit with one-handers by 3% and increases damage done by your off-hand by 25%). The talent to increase 2h weapons is at the bottom of the Frost tree, making it impossible to get if your using a Blood spec...so I guess I still win =D
Blood also has some of its old talents like Bladed Armor (Increase your AP by 6 for every 180 AR you have), Blade Barrier (When Blood Runes are on CD, you gain Blade Barrier, which decreases damage taken by 6% for 10 sec.) and Abomination's Might (Increases the AP of party/raid member by 10% within 100 yards. Also increases your total Str by 2%.). Probably others as well, but blood tree is iky and I don't venture into it often...yet.
Rune cool downs have also been reworked. Instead of each rune being on its own CD, like it is now. Both runes WILL NOT CD at the same time. This is some what confusing to think of, until you actually see how it works...example time. Let's say you use Blood Boil twice, right now in patch 3.3.5 as soon as a rune is used it starts its CD, meaning both are CD'ing at the same time. In 4.0.1, if you use BB twice, only ONE blood rune will CD at a time...meaning the 2nd blood rune is NOT going to CD and is technically LOCKED to do so until the first rune is useable again. Blood runes DO NOT effect the CDs of other rune types, but the same rule applies to frost/unholy runes. Meaning you can only have 3 runes in total ( One Blood, One Unholy and One Frost) CD'ing at once, not like now where all 6 would be cooling down, if all were spent. Confused? Good.
The Blood Tree still has Heart Strike, but you get it no matter what, it's not talented. Blood Boil got an AWESOME graphic make over...think mages/priest bubble blast, but times 10. There's a new ability available called Festering Strike (Not sure, this may be an Unholy ability right now), which causes damage and increases disease duration by 6 sec. There's also a debuff in which Blood Tree users can reduce the physical damage an enemies does and has Blood Boil cost no Runes.
I'm NOT a fan of the new Talent point system, you only have 36 points to work with @ lvl 80. After reaching your final talent in said tree (31 points), I have 5 points left over to put in another tree, making it so you CAN'T advance below the second tier of talents in another tree...
You guys smell that? Smells like cookies...
R.I.P Frost Tanking you will be truly missed.
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#jcIGdhbfoGZ0h This is how my PTR tanking spec looks, I didn't use the other 5 points to show you guys, well since I'm still a lvl 80 :P
I didn't look at my other stats, but my health is sitting at just over 45k self buffed, which is close to what I'm at with light raid buffs in 3.3.5.
NOTE - Some info on here may not be 100% accurate, the PTR is still down and went down while I was relaying info. Things will change often on here and I've yet to actually try the new Tank spec, I was also in the middle of setting up my add-ons when the PTR went offline.
*EDITED* (Slowly finding out some add-ons are broken...Pitbull 4, SCT, Elk BB and possibly DBM) Most of my add-ons currently work in the 4.0.1 PTR (Skinner, Omen, Recount, Dominos, Prat, Gearscore (lol), Threat/Tidy Plates, Power Auras Classic, Nice Damage, Bagnon and ErrorMonster).
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The new tree system sucks, no
The new tree system sucks, no doubt.
Duel Wielding as Blood?
So blood tanks now duel wield? Or would it matter? I was worried about the cooldown on DnD but it seems blood boil is getting buffed. I'm a blood tank on my dk and have waffled on loving/hating the idea of blood being the only tank spec.
Nope. No dual wield.
Nope. No dual wield.
fix't
DUAL* Wield
And how do you not see DKs Dual Wielding, when thats the only weapon specialization they can get, as of now?
I said no dual wield for
I said no dual wield for blood tanks.
But even frost...I dunno if it would be beneficial for them to go DW. The get the nice talents but lose some nice runic regeneration from Might of the Frozen Wastes. I hear that new frost *needs* runic power regen.
Festering is a for Unholy
Festering is a for Unholy DK's and it uses a frost rune. Its a way for them to use the other runes.
Told you looking at the talents and new mechanics would make you see frost is dead. I genuinely am sad about it too. I think DK's having two tanking specs was fun.
I don't mind the whole new talent tree for DK's but I do hate the new rune system. Seems like there is no chance at a set rotation anymore with all the random death runes floating around. We just become another faceroll class.
Blood Tanking
So your saying going 2h with no weapon talent buffs is better than Blood Tank DWing and getting 3% increase to hit for one-handed weapons and 25% increase on oH damage? I beg to differ sir. I've yet to try actual tanking in the PTR, but the Blood Tree still has Scent of Blood and Butchery if RP is a huge issue. There's not much to chose from once your able to move into another tree. Right now your only options are spend the 5 points you have left over, either all in the blood tree, increase max RP value, increase DW damage, increase length of diseases or decrease the CD on DG. There may be one more I'm forgetting, but it's not even worth remembering.
My entire comment is refering to 4.0.1 PTR, not current 3.3.5 live patch.
Talent Build
I think this will be my tanking talent build, such as the talents are now.
I think the DnD, Death Grip, and disease buffs are nice for augmenting aoe tanking and bringing in loose mobs.
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#jrhGdhbfkGoZbhc
Contemplating
I was thinking about going with DnD, not having Howling Blast is going to be...different, but I'm hoping the increased damage and frequent BBs will help with that. Hopefully not to much more will change between now and Cata, but you know Blizzard. The PTR has been down for more than half the day, so I still havent been able to even put any of the theorycrafting talents to use, grrrr.
I'll still dual wield
I'll still dual wield as frost. It's just too awesome a feeling. And if someone complains I'll just pretend ot be a dknub. Sometimes it help to play a flavor of the week class. ;) Still I'm getting sorta excited about blood tanking now and probably won't be dpsing much if it's really awesome. The new rune system does sound like a first come first serve kinda thing, but I'm used to that on my pally so I figure I'll adjust fine. Is there alot of downtime on the runes? Or can you keep spamming your skills? They were trying to decrease the downtime but I didn't see how the new system would help that.
There is more downtime on
There is more downtime on runes yes, they want us to be doing more methodical playing supposedly. Also runic power will mean much more now, especially for frost dks. I talked to a dual wield frost dk that was doing the testing. He said he hit hard but had to struggle at times do get the runic power he wanted. He went to 2H and wasn't hitting as hard but he had runic power to spam whatever ability he wanted. To him it balanced out and was a matter of play style, so thats good!
With runes you will have one recharge all the way before the other one stars to recharge. Added to that we have the death runes which will start messing with rotations left and right. I really don't like that system at all. I want a nice methodical rotation to maximize dps, not have to rely on death rune procs to spam high powered spells over and over.
Right
Zees spot on about the rune system. I just don't like it for tanking, as Zee mentioned it's hard to have a set rotation when you MIGHT get a freebe rune. I've still yet to tank with the new system, I have to DL ANOTHER 15GB patch or whatever, so I may not even get around to it today and the Blizzard Downloader is very tempromental. Although it does make it hard to have a set rotation, it could be a blessing in disguise with tanking, in those "Oh shit" situations and you want to have a rune, any rune.
I've had rare problems like that now in 3.3.5 with Frost Tanking, where if all your runes are on CD and you already used your Rune Tap your kind of sunk until one becomes available. I would think this would be even more so, since runes are taking longer to CD technically. Depending on how this blood tanking goes I MAY...MAY consider bumping my DK to my main...MAY!
Edit and ? for DKs - Has Icebound Fortitude always allow you to become immune to stuns? Because in the PTR is does :P
Yes
Icebound Fortitude has always granted Stun immunity.
God Help Us
So I just got done with my first random as a Blood Tank...and what do they give me? H PoS...dps had to throttle A LOT to not pull off me, the shammy and druid could pull at will. I never even broke 10k TPS, as opposed to 3.3.5, where two-three ITs would generate over 20k tps. Sometimes I could pull of an oT just using ONE Icy Touch. Either I truly have to work on this new tanking or Blizzard still has some work to do...wahhhhhhhhh!!!! :*(
RP didn't seem to be an issue, and large mobs seemed easier to hold than single target. DnD and BB, with occasional HSs...much work has to be done. On a positive note I wasn't taking the hits I normal do and I wasn't relying on Death Strike or Rune Tap to stay alive...unless I just had an uber healer. I tried to get feedback from him/her at the end, but I got no answer. The dps was much more nice :)
Also Obliterate no longer consumes diseases at all.
I'm also heavily weighing the idea of using Dancing Rune Weapon. There's even a glyph that will increase your threat generation by 50% when Dancing Rune Weapon is active...but only 12sec of additional threat gen is just a tease. The new glyph system is very nice in my opinon, they have Prime, Major and Minor glyphs. Once you learn a certain glyph you know it for life. To swap glyphs you need some special dust to remove a glyph from its socket, then you can put another one in its place.
Glyphs
What the hell is the difference between the three? I thought the idea they added in WotLK was to have major glyphs actually affect your abilities in some way, and then minors be cosmetic or nifty little bonus effects that didn't really help much in combat.
Now it seems they're having minor glyphs, major glyphs and now major major glyphs?
Example time kiddies!
From what I can gather Prime glyphs effect damage done directly to spells/abilites or making it so they cost less RP to use. Prime glyphs almost look like the Major Glyphs of now, with some Major glyphs of now (3.3.5) still Major glyphs in the PTR. Major glyphs have a more, enhancement feel to them, empowering certain spells/abilites, making them last longer, increase range, etc. Minor glyphs are still similar to Minor glyphs now, but they added some new ones here and there.
Prime Glyphs
Death Coil - Increase damage/healing by 15%
Death Strike - Increases DS damage by 2% for every 5 RP you have (Up to a max of 40%, does not consume RP when used)
Frost Strike - Decrease RP cost by 8.
Heart Strike - Increases damage by 30%.
Icy Touch - Frost Fever deals 20% additional damage.
Major Glyphs
Anti-Magic Shell - Duration increased by 2 sec.
Blood Boil - Increases radius by 50%.
Bone Shield - Increases movement speed by 15%, doesn't not stack with out movement increasing effects.
Dancing Rune Weapon - While active threat generatin is increased by 50%.
Minor Glyphs
Blood Tap - Doesn't cause damage when used.
Horn of Winter - Increases duration by 1 min.
Resilient Grip - When DG fails because target is immune, the CD on DG resets.
Also as I mentioned earlier, once you learn a glyph you know it for life. Replacing a glyph is a sinch, simply go to an Inscriptionist...get Vanishing Powder (32s for a stack of 5) and use the Vanishing Powder on said glyph, it removes the glyph from the slot. Then pick which glyph you want to replace it from the list on the right and voila, new glyph. I feel bad for Inscriptionists. Either their going to go out of buisness or the glyph values are going to sky rocket, I personally see the prices going up quite a bit.
Tanking Update
After conversing with others in the Trade PTR (which has no trolls, wtf!?!?) it seems like everyone is having trouble with DK Tanking. Other classes were also complaining about poor threat generation. After hearing this I can only assume there's an issue with threat gen across the board and assume it will be fixed before 4.0 goes live. Thank god, I really didn't want to hang up my DK Tanking coat...now if only they could bring back Frost tanking I'd be as happy as a pig in mud.
GOOD NEWS!
Everyone has the same threat generation that you have in the PTR/Beta!
the bad news:
Its going to stay forever that way. THEY WANT DPS TO HAVE TO TROTTLE AGAIN LIKE IN BC/PRE-BC! In other words... Threat matters again. We know this because Mis-Direct no longer perma gives threat. It is only temporary. IE the threat the mis-direct did, goes back on the hunter when finished. Tricks of the Trade are the SAME way now too. No longer will having a rogue or a hunter in a group save the group with a BAD tank.
Good news, ANY TANK THAT KNOWS HOW TO HOLD THREAT WILL BE ABLE TO GET INTO HIGH END GUILDS EASIER.....Bad news....lower tiered guilds will loose their tanks again, JUST LIKE IN BC! YAY US!
Eh
Ran with a pally tank on my lock in PTR last night, I was pulling 6k dps in UP, never pulled once. The night I tanked on my DK in PoS the shammy and druid couldnt hit 4k without pulling off me. MUCH has to be tweaked with the 4.0 patch. I honestly don't see 4.0 hitting until probably late October, maybe even longer. There are TONS of bugs right now, just stupid bugs you wouldn't even think about. Even warriors are having trouble with threat, there's no point in throttling dps if your still only doing 4-5k, that's less than people are doing now in the live server.
Cata/4.0 is faaaaaaaaaaar from being finished yet. Things are going to get bumped up, other things are going to get nerf'd...I was two shot in WG by some magic user...Fire Mage, Destro Lock, Ele shammy...not sure what it was, but I was hit by two 27k hits back to back.